[Osx-nutters] Nat'l Science Teachers Reje ct Offers for "An Inconvenient Truth"

[Chuck Bennett]

On Nov 30, 2006, at 12:58 PM, David Cake wrote:

> At 10:06 AM -0500 30/11/06, Chuck Bennett wrote:
>> On Nov 30, 2006, at 1:08 AM, David Cake wrote:
>>
>>> 	But as pointed out by Lambert, Murty is looking at simple  
>>> frequency and ignoring severity. There is a global rise in the  
>>> most intense hurricanes, category 4 and 5, and a strong  
>>> correlation between big hurricanes and sea surface temperature.
>>
>>
>> No.  The original topic was whether or not AIT was misleading or  
>> "propaganda" as I put it.
>
> 	Well, misleading and propaganda aren't quite the same thing.
> 	There is no doubt that AIT is a political work, designed to  
> convince its audience of a particular point of view. Whether that  
> point of view is a correct one or not is a different question.


Then Exxon's involvement or  or not, the movie is not a proper  
'lesson' to be shown in the schools,  unless what you are doing is  
pushing a "a particular point of view"

>
>
>> We can drift bak into the entire GW debate if you want, but the  
>> origin of the entire thread dealt with the statements  
>> specifically  in AIT
>
> 	Sure. But you brought up the work of Harris, Murty, etc in the  
> context of treating their statements as being solid scientific  
> criticism - most of their comments having been demolished, now you  
> grasp  at the one that survives most intact. Aren't you trying a  
> little too hard here?

So let's see,   Their ability to count hurricanes and argue that the  
movie got is wrong is having their arguments demolished?
Hell, even the IPCC says that the effects of Global Warming on  
Hurricanes will most likely vary from ocean basin to ocean basin.   
How is pointing out that the movie got it wrong s bad?

The models we have contradict each other.  I'm sure that it will be  
figured out soon or later.    Let's just not tell the school kids  
that something is 'fact' when it is in major dispute.

>
> 	Sure, some researchers disagree on the point - but some agree, as  
> well, notably the Webster/Curry team who are finding strong  
> correlations between hurricane intensity and surface sea  
> temperature. I'll grant its a matter of some debate.

and when they publish their results in a peer reviewed paper, answer  
any critics and Gore puts them in his next movie, I won't care,  
because he would have gotten it right.


>
>>
>> Murty  took issue with the statement in the movie  that the  
>> frequency and severity were growing globally.
>
> 	I think if thats your argument against, you might as well just either
> - admit that almost anything ever about science is not going to  
> meet your standards, if you are going to rule out a whole movie on  
> the basis of a single arguable point


no no..  I'm not ruling out the entire movie.   I assume that the  
general public (horrible assumption I know) are capable of making up  
their own minds.   They bought the ticket
and went to the movie of their own accord.

How many of them know that some of the facts are simply wrong or in  
dispute?    Likely none.    I don't even care about that.   They are  
adults..

I object to school kids being force fed incorrect information or  
hotly disputed information in the guise of fact.


> OR
> - just admit that as far as you're concerned, democrats have higher  
> standards of proof needed than right wingers do.


Democrat movie makers obviously don't,  unless you think that Moore  
and Gore are actually making documentary films.

>

I would hope that right or left would actually want to get it  
right.   That's why I said that I'd think if  the claim that the  
Canadian Ice Cap Data (that I posted a link to)
are in error, then the answer to the claim that Gore's movie got it  
wrong would be a wonderful chance to bring more attention to the  
problem.

If the data are correct, and the caps haven't had a precipitous drop  
off, then attacking the messenger is all you can do.


What raises the red flag for me is when a particular point of view is  
pushed on the schools and I mean that for the right or the left.

=c=