Re: [Osx-nutters] President Bush Vows Attacks “Across the World”

[Matt Johnston]

On 5 Oct 2006, at 22:01, Chuck Bennett wrote:
>
> Ask the French how that whole 'leaving them alone' thing  is  
> working.   What they are doing with all those burned cars BTW?.   
> Ask the Brits about the subways and the Spaniards about their  
> trains..  the Danes about burned embassies.  (over a fucking  
> cartoon!  I mean, How can you deal with people that riot over  
> cartoons or mistake Buddy Jesus for an Imam and then riot about  
> it?  I don't know either, but leaving them alone is NOT going to  
> work.)

See, this is indicative of ignorance.

You're going to condone the further massacre of innocents in the  
middle east in order to prevent domestic terrorism because the UK  
subway bombings were perpetrated by people who lived in the UK. The  
french car burnings were perpetrated by French muslims. The Spanish  
subway bombings by Spanish muslims. Are you suggesting that they  
should round people up based on their religion? Certainly seems so?

These people are taking revenge.

Impeaching Bush may make Cheney president currently, but not if that  
fucker is in jail first. And signs that the attacks were getting  
larger? 9/11 was the FIRST major attack on US soil. Suddenly you're  
an expert on Terrorism? you have no idea about Terrorism. You've no  
idea of what it will take to "defeat" Terrorism. The US is going to  
attack it's own people, bomb millions of innocents in other countries  
and in the end they are going to have to negotiate because every  
single death in the Middle East creates a martyr. 9/11 was not a  
problem delivered to Bush that he had to deal with. They didn't just  
wake up and decide to murder a couple of thousand people. It was a  
carefully planned response to US foreign policy.

You talk about Islam being "Kill, convert or submit"? Ignorance.  
Islam's fundaments would make most Christians blush. It's an  
extremely gentle religion. The problem is that they're going through  
their "Crusade period" just as the Christians went through theirs.  
Christians butchered millions. We can expect worse. By conflating the  
terms "Terrorist" and "Islam" you're just going to make things worse.

Here in the UK, we've had Muslim orchestrated terrorist attacks.  
Since 9/11. Since the Afghan invasion. The feeling here is most  
definitely that we shouldn't have gotten involved in the US crusade  
against Islam. We had a very good relationship with our Muslim  
brothers. As the perception is that the UK and the US are at the  
forefront of a war against Islam, we're reaping the rewards. Just  
because the terror attacks are not in US soil, it doesn't mean they  
are not happening against Americans. Look at Iraq - it's now  a  
shithole. They used to have universities where women could study to  
be doctors which was progressive for a Muslim state. Now they have  
rubble and mothers teaching their children about how their fathers  
and brothers were murdered by the US. US soldiers are under constant  
attack. Is that progress?

Again, your response to the "We're fucked" scenario (which you  
accept) is that one more missile strike, one more freedom gone, one  
more jailed innocent will resolve the problem. That going on the  
offensive will eventually get all of the baddies. That's just naive.

And bringing World War 2 into this? Jesus. Japan, a sovereign nation,  
attacked you with their national army of warships and planes. Where  
is the nation that attacked you on 9/11? When are you going to attack  
them? you've attacked and effectively destroyed two nations who were  
not involved? And threatened a whole pile more. Where's the comparison?

I expect we'll get a page of rhetoric about how we're all young  
whippersnappers and we won't see anything that addresses any of the  
salient points. Again.

My solution is not "Game Over, Man".

My solution is "This isn't fucking working and my countrymen are  
being slaughtered. Plus we don't feel any safer after 5 years of war.  
Maybe we should consider a different tack?"

Your solution is "This isn't fucking working and my countrymen are  
being slaughtered. Plus we don't feel any safer after 5 years of war.  
But maybe if we bomb this village, arrest these coloured guys, and  
make more threats around the Middle East everyone will just stop  
thinking we're a bunch of fucking cunts and like us."

Brilliant Plan. No, really. I can see that's going to sway them. I  
can see why the UN thought this plan was a good one and refused to  
back it.

M