[Osx-nutters] AHMADINEJAD

[Patrick Coskren]

Sigh... let's try that again.  (I'm getting used to the trackpad on a  
new MacBook.  I love this thing.)

On Sep 28, 2006, at 4:56 AM, Google Kreme wrote:

> On 27 Sep 2006, at 22:46 , Patrick Coskren wrote:
>> On Sep 28, 2006, at 12:26 AM, Google Kreme wrote:
>>> That's not what I said.  I said the US **IN IRAQ** is not better  
>>> than Saddam **IN IRAQ**.
>>
>> ... right... and then you added "has imported that brand of  
>> 'justice' to the US".
>
> Well, that's not even opinion.  That's simple fact.  Bush and his  
> Homeland Security has incarcerated many US citizen in violation of  
> the Constitution.  In fact, there was just a story about one guy  
> who'd been in custody for 3 years because his name was similar to  
> some al queda guy.  No charges were ever filed, but his green card  
> is being revoked and his American wife and American children will  
> likely never see him again.  He's spent years in jail, often  
> without communication with anyone (lawyer, family, etc) and all  
> because his name was sort like someone else's.

Yes.  Right.  I agree.  I just meant that I was bringing up the USA  
for comparison because you had already introduced it.

As for violation of the spirit, certainly, if not the letter of the  
Constitution, there was also the case of that poor guy from Canada  
who got rendered to Syria for interrogation and torture.  I thought  
Syria was one the bad guys.  And here's the Administration, letting  
them torture a guy on no meaningful evidence whatsoever.  And now  
we're supposed to just trust them and make it easier for the CIA to  
torture people, because hey, these are good people who won't abuse it.

>> For one thing, I believe that most of the soldiers on the ground  
>> are sincerely trying to make the place better;
>
> I'm sure most soldiers in teh Republican Guard were just trying to  
> defend their land.  And I bet most police in Bagdad were trying to  
> protect their citizens.  So what?  Most people, most of the time,  
> are trying to do the right thing.  That has nothing to do with the  
> policies of the US Government

Perhaps.  Like I said, maybe I'm splitting hairs.

>>> In fact, a very convincing case could be made that Iraq is far  
>>> far worse off now than it was in 2000.
>>
>> I think it's certainly worse off.  Torture is reportedly up, when  
>> you factor in the militias.
>
> Not to mention thousands of people (and, like under Saddam, largely  
> uncounted) killed in terrorist actions.  Terrorist WE imported to  
> Iraq.

Yes, absolutely.  I'm open to correction, but my understanding is  
that the "foreign fighters" played a relatively minor role in actual  
fighting, though they may have helped push the different ethnicities  
into more violent opposition.

>> Yup.  It's an important distinction, especially when the guys on  
>> the Right are constantly accusing us of forgetting it.  You don't  
>> persuade people by calling the President a terrorist, when he's  
>> "merely" staggeringly incompetent.
>
> Well, I think he's far worse than incompetent.  Malevolent. And  
> evil son of a bitch who I would not be surprised one bit to find a  
> cluster of 6's tattooed on his scalp.  Seriously, the man is a  
> horror film on legs.
>
>>> His administrations current ploy of trying to pin 9/11 on Clinton  
>>> is reprehensible.
>>
>> Absolutely.  And lying to do it, no less.
>
> Have they ever done anything BUT lie?

Sure.  Sometimes they shoot their friends in the face.  :-)

-Patrick