[Osx-nutters] AHMADINEJAD

[David Cake]

At 10:22 AM -0400 27/9/06, Jeffrey Hergan wrote:
>On Sep 25, 2006, at 4:02 AM, David Cake wrote:
>
>>>=. Try that in Iran/Saudi Arabia/North Korea/Cuba/any one of
>>>dozens of other countries beloved of the Western liberal elite.
>>
>>	I think this sentence clearly shows that Guys political rants 
>>have headed into crack pipe territory. I mean, who really thinks 
>>the Western Liberal elite love Saudi Arabia (which draws far more 
>>support from a Western right wing elite who want its oil), or North 
>>Korea?
>
>Well...I think there is clearly a cultural relativism thrust forward 
>by the liberal elite, and liberals in general, that says (at least) 
>"Don't judge them because we really ought to respect their culture 
>regardless of the actions of the state (of Saudi Arabia or N. Korea) 
>or some individuals within the state.  I wouldn't say those 
>countries are 'beloved' but they certainly are poster children of 
>the liberal elite, used in criticisms of the right wingers.

	Even that sounds like bizarro world politics to me -- I 
thought the main rhetorical use of Saudi Arabia by the left was 
simply to point out the rights complete hypocrisy (extremist Muslims 
are bad, and must be bombed! Unless they give us their oil, in which 
case we must love them!).
	And, you know, no one loves North Korea.
	I'm with Patrick - this idea of what the liberal media elite 
say appears completely disconnected from reality.

At 10:47 AM -0400 27/9/06, Patrick Coskren wrote:
>To even argue that liberals have a fondness for those countries 
>makes it sound like you're not listening to any actual liberals 
>(although I'm sure you can find a few extremists somewhere who'll 
>say anything).

	Indeed. Its not a particularly good example, because shes not 
really a US figure, but Germaine Greer did publicly speak in support 
of female circumcision as a cultural practice that should be 
respected (in one of her more deranged moments), for example. But its 
hardly the mainstream view of the liberal elite.

At 10:47 AM -0400 27/9/06, Patrick Coskren wrote:
>You're not paying attention if you think the Left makes no moral 
>judgments.  It's just that they think morality is about something 
>different from what's in your pants and what religious figure you 
>pray to.  Typical liberal policies like universal health care, 
>vigorous diplomacy before engaging in war, economic equality, civil 
>rights, not torturing people, the right to a fair trial, etc, these 
>are all motivated by moral principles.

	Absolutely. And this whole idea that the liberals are not 
motivated by morals and values is just a strange right wing delusion. 
The reason liberals hate Bush is, fundamentally, because they think 
he is a liar and a cheat.
	(and to anticipate Chucks response about Clinton also being a 
liar - for one, neither side is immune to partisanship, and for two, 
the issue of Clintons dishonesty was very publicly tied in with his 
infidelity, which liberals think is fundamentally not their business, 
so it doesn't offend them as much -- but lieing about government 
policy is, to liberals, an issue that they very much should take 
offense at.)
	I have a few things to say about the different ways US 
liberals and conservatives think in a post I'll get around to making 
soon.
	Cheers
		David