[Osx-nutters] Jeb Bush on the Death Penalty in Florida - Google Video

[Chuck Bennett]

On Jan 9, 2007, at 2:24 PM, Chris Gehlker wrote:

>
> On Jan 9, 2007, at 11:38 AM, Chuck Bennett wrote:
>
>>
>> On Jan 9, 2007, at 1:06 PM, Chris Gehlker wrote:
>
>
>>
>> A militia didn't hang him.  He as found guilty in an Iraq court.    
>> Just plain old population numbers say that the odds of the hangmen  
>> being Shite are pretty high.   I agree that it could have been  
>> handled a lot better but I don't really blame them for getting in  
>> a comment or two to a guy that killed nearly a million people..
>>
>
> Have you  seen the video, Chuck? They are Madhi Army and they  
> aren't bothering to pretend otherwise.

I did see the video.   They are pro Sadar, but that doesn't make them  
Madhi Army and it still doesn't make the hanging a militia
event.   He was sentenced to death in the court system.   What  
happened afterwards indicates a lack of control over the proceedings  
but that is all.  I understand that they arrested the guy that made  
the video.

>>>
>>> I suppose there are other issues that arise. One is for Christ's  
>>> sake why didn't the US either turn Saddam to an actual court for  
>>> trial
>>
>> It was an actual court.   He even had Ramsey (I never met a despot  
>> I didn't like)  Clark as a lawyer for awhile.
>
> I couldn't find anyone outside the administration at the time who  
> thought Saddam was getting a fair trial. There were several posting  
> here dealing with the issue.
>>
>>> or simply  detail a squad of soldiers to shoot him?
>>
>> Now that would have been a crime.  What would be the difference  
>> between that and the soldiers that killed some civilians?
>> We missed out chance when we didn't drop a grenade into the spider  
>> hole.
>
> I'm upset about the incidents where soldiers  killed some civilians  
> and I think you are as well. Neither of us would have cared if they  
> had simply shot Saddam. That's the difference.

I think we actually agree here.   We had our chance and we didn't  
kill him in his hole.  After the elections he became the Iraqi's  
problem.

>
>>> If the former option were chosen, it's not like he would  have  
>>> been acquitted: if the latter, it's not  like there would have   
>>> been strong objections. What did they hope to gain from the  
>>> kangaroo court and the lynching?
>>
>>
>> Who are you referring to as  'they'?    By the time he went to  
>> trial, Iraq was governed by an elected government with a judicial  
>> system.
>> We might find the system flawed and somewhat barbaric but it  
>> wasn't our (the US) call.
>
> It's a puppet government. Real governments don't tolerate armies of  
> occupation on their soil.

They do until they can stand on their own, just ask Japan or  
Germany.  (we are still there)

In Germany though I think that the turn over of Flint-Kaserne (where  
I spent a lot of time with the 10th SF)  in Bad Tölz back the the  
Germans in 1990 was the last of the genuine occupation land.


I think that we will try to get out of Iraq ASAP and sooner if the  
the Iraqi government asks.

>
> [snip a lot of stuff that  pre-supposes the government of Iraq is  
> not a puppet]
>

We just disagree about that.   I don't think that all those people  
that braved awful risks just to go and vote, felt that it was a puppet.

It's for sure not the government we would have liked.  We didn't like  
the influence of Sharia law in their constitution.
Come to think of it they actually they did a lot of things that a  
puppet government would not do and defied the US in a lot of areas.

We were absolutely wrong in thinking that we could establish a US  
style democracy but I still think there is a chance for some form of  
elected government that doesn't kill it's own people, better respects  
human rights and would rather engage in trade than war.

[snip]

>
> None of this has anything to do with the teaching of Jesus  who  
> advised his followers to love their enemies. But I never mistook  
> you for a Christian.


I'm not.  I don't turn the other cheek,  I do a tactical reload and a  
360 sweep..

I'm not to Stuck Mojo's  "Open Season" (google video)  mode yet but I  
understand where they are coming from.  (too paranoid even for me)

=c=



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